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Auschwitz


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Auschwitz

Postby Dark Angel » Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:44 pm

Is anyone else watching the new series on BBC2 about Auschwitz.

I am watching it as I type this and I find it greatly horrific and very sad that we not only did this to each other as human beings but also, that we haven't learned any lessons from it either.

My grandad was one of the first people into Belsen and I remember to this day how he used to tell me about some of the things he had seen, heard and smelt. I also remember that every time he talked of this he cried. It stayed with him until he died.

Are we as humans really more civilised than animals or are we still some way behind ?? Make your own mind up [V]
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Auschwitz

Postby Dark Angel » Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:44 pm

Is anyone else watching the new series on BBC2 about Auschwitz.

I am watching it as I type this and I find it greatly horrific and very sad that we not only did this to each other as human beings but also, that we haven't learned any lessons from it either.

My grandad was one of the first people into Belsen and I remember to this day how he used to tell me about some of the things he had seen, heard and smelt. I also remember that every time he talked of this he cried. It stayed with him until he died.

Are we as humans really more civilised than animals or are we still some way behind ?? Make your own mind up [V]
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Auschwitz

Postby Dark Angel » Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:44 pm

Is anyone else watching the new series on BBC2 about Auschwitz.

I am watching it as I type this and I find it greatly horrific and very sad that we not only did this to each other as human beings but also, that we haven't learned any lessons from it either.

My grandad was one of the first people into Belsen and I remember to this day how he used to tell me about some of the things he had seen, heard and smelt. I also remember that every time he talked of this he cried. It stayed with him until he died.

Are we as humans really more civilised than animals or are we still some way behind ?? Make your own mind up [V]
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Postby doctor jeep » Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:01 pm

I know what you mean. it beggars belief that these things can happen.

I remember chatting with my old gran. the news was on, and she was tutting about something. I dont know, like graffiti etc. she asked what the world was coming to. I replied that in her day the world was mad and millions of people were being gassed in industrial extermination camps, almost every nation on earth at war etc etc. give me the graffiti any day!
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Postby Dark Angel » Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:11 pm

True but I do think that history has an awful way of repeating itself. I think that every little piece of disrespect that happens in society is perhaps just a step further along a road that has already been travelled and most likely will again.

I just wish that more people would think of the costs their actions have on someone else before they do them. I think that even something as small as this would make a great difference.
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Postby Edpow1 » Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:15 pm

There has been POGRAMS in Europe for years, against the Jews. BEfore that there have been persecutions of other ethnic groups....seems to be a common method used by more radical leaders who keep power through fear. That is what repeats itself.
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Postby Keks » Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:15 pm

The world is ****ing stupid even i as a 20 year old german get often accused beeing nazi and beeing responsible!!!!! for what has happend...


well then i just say oh iam sorry iam so old i already forgot .....
yeah a long time ago when i was still young beeing SS-Officer in Warsaw......

OMG what the **** is teh wrong?

especially in some countries to the west...far west across the big ocean :)
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Postby Edpow1 » Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:18 pm

people hold prejudices and xenophobia is very common, makes me annoyed. THat is the point, it is over 60 years ago, you can't punish a child for what that child's grandfather did in the past. I think there are groups who don't want to forget, and like to keep digging things up...others are just too dumb to move on. We can't forget, but we can't judge people either on their actions
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Postby Dark Angel » Thu Jan 13, 2005 8:18 pm

I agree that people should not be judged for the actions of earlier generations, however I also think that things like this should be remembered. Not so that we can keep beating somebody with it but so there might be a chance that the same things may not be repeated.

Unfortunately, as I said, these things do still go on and people still hold all the same small minded prejudices. It is even small minded that people would give Keks a hard time for something that happened before he was even born.

Anyway, I still think that these things provide much food for thought about the failures of the human race
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Postby Siddy » Thu Jan 13, 2005 9:05 pm

Most germans during ww2 didnt even know about the death camps till allied troops started finding em and showing the german + the rest of the eastern european populas, i wouldnt call keks a nazi unless he started goose stepping down a street und shouting sieg heil to the top of his voice.
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Postby Edpow1 » Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:05 am

sadly that is now debateable...Places like Landsberg seemed a million miles away from the war, but there were camps there, and people saw them, smelt them, worked around them and were aware of what was going on, the thing is they did not see the harm in it. That is when things become scarey, they know nothing different and accept it
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Postby TheDuke » Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:53 pm

Howdy Doctor Jeep -
I was over in Germany for my Ganny's 80th (who I am very close to) and we where sitting in the car and we spoke about this and that and she started going on about how difficut it in the present time and how she would not want to be a teenager today - I looked at her confused and pointed out that when she was 14 the most horrific conflic in human history broke out, by the time she was 15 three of her closest male friends where lay dead somewhere in Polan and France - and that only for that madness at the time they could still have been here today - I then came back to the point that now is the time to have a youth - she nodded very thoughtfully.


Keks - I am german too but have only come accross this ignorance once... sais more about them then about me - wouldn't bother getting upset about it. More importantly you can dip into the history books of where you are living and I assure you they'll have had their own from of racist dictator...


Re thread

I think it is very important to actually go into the 'architecture' of the third reich and its methods to really understand that human nature behind it. Given the right resources, approach, envrinoment and determination anyone can be manipualted and /or pressurised to do anything... but we've discussed that before so I'll stop.

I think that humans are good by nature and that killing is not a natrual instinct or everyone would readliy use it for conflict resolution. I believe that we are a highly developed species that can knows it exists and can most importantly can project itself into another humans condistion (such as emphathy pr joy - such as when someone kicks a goal). This in my view is an asstaunding ability. However as a race we are still somewhere between the hard reality of existance and survival and the more softer elements of our existance (i.e. if there's anough to eat and drink for us to survive can we start 'developing').

Now at that point we are into the 7 deadly sins (a model I find very interresting and even assess myself against - what motivates me the most). The study of people and behavoural patterns - what motivates them and how do they achive it.

If you look into the employment world one key requirement is communication and people skills - 60 years ago this was not even thought of - however now people that care about people is the in thing. And this is where it come down to, is a human willing to achieve a goal with utter disregard for the people or does the human want to achieve the goal with the people?

However then we get on to team dynamics - there will always be one team against the next, football, departments, countries, etc - but again, how far is the entitiy going to go to achieve its objectives, will some one assatnate ManUnited to win.. stupid example but you get the point, will we adhere to our 'social rules'. Within German the social rules where changed or made more sever over a period of time which I phase as 'the period of desensitization'.

I reread this and it reads like bullsh!t but I'll send it off anyhow as it made sense as I typed it... [xx(]
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Postby TheDuke » Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:59 pm

yyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesus... I just re-read my thread...

what a bucket of bull [xx(][xx(][xx(][xx(][xx(][xx(]

I'd bann myself from the board for such a pile of blx !!! [V]

sry guys...tried so desperate to make a point.. [:I]
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Postby Gapiro » Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:17 pm

dont ban yourself
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Postby Edpow1 » Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:49 pm

did anyone see in last night's edition they said that the uprising in Warsaw was entirely Jewish - it was not, it was Polish and most Poles hated the JEws....
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