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What was more important in causing war


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What was more important in causing war

Postby Edpow1 » Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:02 pm

The great depression or the Treaty of Versailles?


I plump for the depression cause it sparked global conflicts elsewhere that were nothing to do with Versailles, e.g. Japo-Sino war and eventually Pearl Harbour, which brought AMerica into the war and made it a truly global event. Americans, though arguably waiting for a chance to join in, would probably not have come nearly so soon had they not been pushed, and probably Germany would of still lost to Russia, though maybe not, and France would be liberated by the Red Army and Communism might still be around today.
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Postby PIRANHA » Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:49 am

I believe Germanys start was a big combination like you say of the depression (although they were coming out of it), the treaty and of course the communist groups which were appearing around Germany and gaininf support. Situations such as that always seem to allow an extremist group/party to gain ground - look at what happened to Iran in the mid/late 70's.
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Postby sammo » Fri Sep 16, 2005 2:26 pm

Definetely the Depression.

Hitler needed a scapegoat- and he would have found one no matter what, it didnt depend on the Treaty of Versailles. However if it wasnt for the depression the Nazi Party would never have won the seats they got in the Reichstag.

They were incredibly unpopular before the Depression (8 seats i think) and the versailles treaty wasnt making much difference = wall street crash roxores your war.
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Postby Silvio » Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:40 pm

i'd like to agree but Germany was in a depression at the end of the first world war and the treaty of Versailles only made it worse. Nice program abouyt Hitler's rise last night pointed that out and historians were generally in agreement that the Germans weren't the only ones who hated the Jews, France and Poland were equally rascist if not worse. The difference being National Socialism...
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Postby sammo » Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:48 pm

how can you say that silvio.

the nazis were nowhere in 1928 despite versailles.

Germany was prospering under the leadership of Gustav Stresseman and money from the Dawes Plan. It was the depression that led to the nazis becoming more popular because people were so unhappy.
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Postby PIRANHA » Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:53 pm

It was no single thing that brought the Nazis to power - remember that although a lot of Germans did not completely agree with the Nazis feelings; but due to the growing number of communist groups which were appearing people swayed towards the Nazis in an attempt to stop the growth of communism.
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Postby Gapiro » Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:52 pm

too many long posts and actual proper discussion makes gapiro's head hurt
i might stay outta this one
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Postby TEF » Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:10 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Gapiro</i>
<br />too many long posts and actual proper discussion makes gapiro's head hurt
i might stay outta this one
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">aye [B)]
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Postby Edpow1 » Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:53 pm

I made an uber super post with **** loads of stuff in it, and just as I went to click "post" the puter crashed.....was angry
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Postby TEF » Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:54 pm

ach u should buy new fans and remove all dust
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Postby Silvio » Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:35 am

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by sammo</i>
<br />how can you say that silvio.

the nazis were nowhere in 1928 despite versailles.

Germany was prospering under the leadership of Gustav Stresseman and money from the Dawes Plan. It was the depression that led to the nazis becoming more popular because people were so unhappy.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

i stand by my remarks about anti semitism in Europe. It hasn't gone away, and where i live it's pretty common place too. just hidden under our breaths. and PIRHANA made an excellent point that the ranks of the communists were beginning to grow. people were looking for someone to blame. i might have to concede however as the post war Weimar Rep from 1919 to the stock market crash has some gaping holes in the timeline.

but my point that central Europe is bad for antisemetism staNDs. as ugly as a wart on the hand of a charming sexy woman
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Postby sammo » Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:55 pm

you're definetely right about anti-semitism being around in europe, but many of those countries apart from germany didnt commit genocide.

I think its easy to get confused.

The Depression was the most important short term factor because it generated an atmosphere for the nazis to sweep to power, but in the long term the humiliation of versailles was important.
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Postby Silvio » Sat Sep 17, 2005 6:01 pm

i'm not forgetting that. i am merely saying it is not just a german problem. i just assumed that point. sorry i'm not a skilled debater
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Postby Edpow1 » Sat Sep 17, 2005 8:25 pm

Poland was terribly anti-Semitic. It was not led by anyone "brave" enough to defy the rest of the world and commit genocides, but pogroms have always been common in Europe, and the ones who are in power are always comfortable, and therefore have no need to attack others who are no threat. People of lower positions - lower middle class officials and workers (All the Nazi leadership were from here except for Goering and a few military types) - felt that they were being kept down by some other force, and they are easily swayed to blame the Jews or anyone else. Hitler was from low down enough to believe this, had he been an aristocrat, or wealthy then it is highly likely he would have felt "comfortable" and not have open animosity to others.
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Postby Silvio » Sun Sep 18, 2005 5:41 am

so anti-semitism is linked to class then?
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